At Guerra LLP we have twenty-five outstanding attorneys, fifteen of whom are female. Each year for Women’s History Month we ask our females to set aside time to provide advice for current attorneys and those aspiring to be. This year we turned to our Grasshopper (law clerk) females asking them if they had any questions for our female attorneys and they delivered.
Attorneys Shalimar Wallis, Alicia O’Neill, Jennifer Neal, Rebecca Page, Bailey VanNatta, Julie Matsen, and Jessica Peisen answered some of the hard-hitting questions our female clerks had by imparting the knowledge and wisdom they have learned thus far in their careers. Below are their answers and from those answers it is easy to tell why these female attorneys are trailblazers in their field.
Has There Been a Moment in Your Career That Has Been Particularly Rewarding?
For Bailey, Jessica, and Jennifer, there are moments in the litigation process that stick out to them. Less than a year after she became licensed, one of Bailey’s first cases that she was assigned won an arbitration award for $3 million against a company that failed to protect a victim of domestic violence. For her, it was particularly rewarding to be able to stand up for a victim of domestic violence “who could no longer stand up for herself,” she stated.
Jessica’s first deposition was a big moment for her as she stood her ground against opposing counsel who asked her client an improper question. She objected to the male attorney who then requested that they go off the record so he could lecture her on procedure and evidentiary standards. Jessica stood by her objection and was able to keep her cool.
For Jennifer, she experienced a monumental moment that took place in the courtroom. She has had the opportunity to be in trial many times but there was one case when her entire trial team was all female litigating in front of a female judge. That was truly impactful for her.
Alicia has had many rewarding litigation moments but lately, the moments that have meant the most have been the time she has been able to invest in mentoring the associates and law clerks at the firm. “I haven’t always had time to step back and really act as a mentor and I’m finding that having time to do that now is helpful to our younger lawyers and incredibly rewarding to me.”
Have You Experienced Any Gender Bias or Discrimination in Your Career?
Many of our female attorneys have been mistaken as paralegals or are talked down to by opposing counsel, sometimes unintentionally. To combat that, they immediately introduce themselves as attorneys, brush off comments if they are minor, or pull aside the offender if they need to address a more offensive comment privately to check the intention behind what was said.
Shalimar, an attorney for 23 years now, suggests correcting the behavior without low blows. “Low blows are easy. It speaks far more of your character to take the high road, even when you’d rather do anything but.”
In the end, Alicia, also an attorney for over twenty years, has learned to harness the power that comes with being underestimated and marginalized. When she was younger, she played Little League with boys in Galveston. They would all move in when she came up to bat, assuming that she could not hit over their head. She would prove them wrong every time. “That’s pretty much what my legal career has been like – let them move in. Let them make it easier for you to beat them. Their assumptions have nothing to do with how far you can hit it.”
What Advice Would You Give to Aspiring Female Lawyers Just Beginning Their Careers?
“You are going to be underestimated, weaponize it. You are going to be undervalued, ignore it. When you are overlooked and overprepared, you will become a dangerous combination that no one sees coming.” – Jessica Peisen
The importance of finding a mentor significantly can impact your career trajectory according to Shalimar, Jennifer, and Bailey. Shalimar advised, “Think about the kind of lawyer you want to be from day one and work towards that goal every day after. There are no shortcuts, however, there is help.”
Alicia echoed Shalimar’s sentiments but also suggested looking introspectively at what you want your entire life, not just your career, to look like. This does not mean that things won’t ever change though. “Sometimes you have to put down an anchor or change directions, and that’s ok” which is advice Julie added.
What Has Been the Most Significant Barrier in Your Career?
Being a female in a field dominated by men has its challenges. Although women now comprise 39% of all attorneys[1], they still face barriers. Shalimar received backlash from her male counterparts because when her children were younger as she was unable to keep the same hours as they could.
On top of that struggle, imposter syndrome is also very prominent in the field as well. Many of our attorneys struggle with this as it is common among women in high-stress, high-achievement environments. In an article Jennifer wrote a while back, she discusses imposter syndrome and shattering the glass ceiling as a woman in the legal industry.
A large portion of our female attorneys have noticed that it is harder to build referral relationships, particularly with men than their male counterparts. They have more turns to navigate in the relationships. “In my experience in the personal injury law sphere, men are not as comfortable in social situations with their female colleagues as they are with their male colleagues. That may just be the nature of human beings, or it could be due to outside influence (the stigma of being seen with a lawyer of the opposite sex socially). The natural progression of spending more social time together leads to stronger relationships. When it comes time to look for an attorney to refer a case to, we all think of those people we are closest to. This leaves females in our industry well behind our male colleagues.” Jennifer stated. Rebecca has addressed that stigma by trying to have group events and avoid one-on-one interactions, however, there is still a disadvantage to that.
How Do You Think the Legal Profession Can Be More Inclusive of Women, Particularly in Leadership Roles?
All attorneys agree that San Antonio has done a fantastic job of representing attorneys in the legal field. Numerous women hold positions of leadership and power, especially at our judiciary on both the district and appellate level (they are ALL female). However, they know that this was all possible because there were women before who held the door a little wider for the woman behind them.
Our attorneys know that they have to continue to hold the door open to help other women succeed. From instilling confidence and encouraging them to apply for law school or leadership positions, to including extra seats at the table, we must pass it down to a woman who is still climbing. “We have to show up and do the work. We have to be loud, we have to share our opinions and take a seat at the table. We should not wait for an invitation.” Shalimar stated.
Are There Any Tips You Can Share to Help Enhance Your Practice?
“Give people the benefit of the doubt unless and until proven that they do not deserve that benefit. Actively listen when people speak to you and never interrupt someone when they are talking.” – Jennifer Neal
Each attorney has different methods that work well for their practices but all center around ensuring that the person they are interacting with feels like they are valued. Julie chooses to channel her empathy, “Displaying your emotions is typically feminine and looked down upon compared to the traditionally masculine stoicism. But when I channel that empathy in a useful way, it helps me find common ground with colleagues, clients, and opposing parties alike.”
How Do You Balance Your Personal Lives with Being an Attorney?
The legal profession is crippled with burnout. So many attorneys find themselves overworked, stressed, and pushed to their limit far too often thanks to the ultra-competitive atmosphere paired with working long hours. While our attorneys still struggle with finding a balance to avoid burnout, they have adopted some healthy habits they try to utilize in their daily lives.
Most try to set boundaries and set aside time for a “recharge” or self-care. Jennifer will not allow herself to work after dinner (as long as there is not a court deadline that requires it). Turning off notifications during her time at home in the evening and on weekends is Bailey’s method of avoiding burnout. Rebecca sets aside a block of time to help promote her mental health, “I try to do something beneficial for my mental health during that time whether it be playing sports, hiking, spending quality time with my friends or family, or even something as simple as binging a Netflix show.”
Regardless, striking that balance between work and personal life is a constant struggle, but when you also add being a mother into the mix, it can be even more challenging. For Shalimar, she has the advice to take each day one at a time, “every single day is a fresh start but at the same time, no day is predictable.” When Alicia’s son was younger, she would take him everywhere with her. Now that he is older, she shares with him about her cases and work struggles. She makes it a point to include him in her life and to always ask a lot of questions about his life, “I remind myself all the time that he is my real life. He is why I work hard.”
“You have to let go of the rigidity and rules. All that matters is that you get the work done in both jobs – motherhood and lawyering. It matters not how you get it done. I have said this before but you have to pave your own road and not be sucked into the myth that there is one ‘right way’.” – Shalimar Wallis
If You Could Go Back in Time and Give Your Younger Self Advice, What Would You Say to Her?
Each of our attorneys had varying pieces of advice for their younger selves but all had a common theme – empowerment.
“Advocate for yourself.” – Jennifer Neal
“When there’s a storm, and there will always be a storm, listen to that still, small voice that tells you when it’s the right time to throw the anchor down, put the sails up, and stay the course, or burn the ship altogether. Bend but don’t break, you’ll be ok.” – Julie Matsen
“You’re going to make mistakes, you’re going to mess up, and it’s okay. This career path is always growing and always changing. It is quite normal to make mistakes as long as you learn from them.” – Rebecca Page
“Ignore the noise, focus on the client and the job.” – Shalimar Wallis
Alicia appreciates where her time as an attorney brought her and wouldn’t change a thing because she does not want to interfere with a moment of how her life has played out. Besides, “I’d never listen to me anyway” she added.
The road to being a female attorney is everchanging and full of surprise turns and potholes. Our attorneys are at varying stages of the road trip, but all rely on each other for support and guidance. We are proud of all the women who work at Guerra LLP and the beacons of light they are for others. We celebrate every one of them and appreciate the time they set aside to advise to our grasshoppers!
To catch up on previous tips from our female attorneys during Women’s History Month, click here.
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